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20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
05-21-2015, 09:37 PM
Post: #31
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-21-2015 08:55 PM)saarg Wrote:  @willem
Can you please stop ranting about how 23,976 is a useless frame rate?
Almost all blu-rays are 23,976 fps and should be played back at same frame rate. Most displays support 23,976 and no, it doesn't normally play it back at multiples of 50 fps.
Just because you do not see or want to know the difference doesn't mean its not an issue.

The elephant in the room regarding Android 4 ?
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05-21-2015, 11:36 PM
Post: #32
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Thank you guys Smile I'm not alone with my moody mood Smile
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05-22-2015, 06:29 AM
Post: #33
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
A forum for grumpy old men. ;o)

Y'know, I think, I think that a week from now, you'll be less in the mood for being amusing.
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05-22-2015, 07:44 AM (This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 07:49 AM by Willem55.)
Post: #34
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-21-2015 08:55 PM)saarg Wrote:  @willem
Can you please stop ranting about how 23,976 is a useless frame rate?
Almost all blu-rays are 23,976 fps and should be played back at same frame rate. Most displays support 23,976 and no, it doesn't normally play it back at multiples of 50 fps.
Just because you do not see or want to know the difference doesn't mean its not an issue.

did you even try to watch 23,976 in 50p or 60p?

Check your TV screen refresh rate and know it's way higher than 24Hz more like 100Hz or even 200Hz so the screen is giving the same frame a few refresh cycles in a row.
now if the NMT outputs at 50p the math is simple but if it does 23,976 in 24p there are hic ups that I think you can avoid if you let the NMT translate 23,976 to 50p or 60p.

Check my post never said 23,976 is useless ... just a problem if you want to fit in 24p.

Now if you say your display supports 23,976 then why do you set the OHC to output at 24p?

Some focus on problems and faults others on solutions and success... no question who is the happy one.

Chameleon 16GB SD 32GB micro SD <-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to a A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.
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05-22-2015, 08:46 AM
Post: #35
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
I think there was a question in between the rumble. Lollipop accrding to freaktab is being released next month by RChip to box makers.

Personally Windows or linux appeals more. Windows8 for the rk3288 has also been discussed but no release timetable.
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05-22-2015, 09:57 AM
Post: #36
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-22-2015 07:44 AM)Willem55 Wrote:  Now if you say your display supports 23,976 then why do you set the OHC to output at 24p?

the best solution would be a synchron playing with 23,976 between display and player. If the display supports 24p, XBMC/Kodi was able to play the movie slightly faster to match the 24p - and all is also fine.
With OHC you get microstuttering with 24p and the same settings (or any other settings) like a Rapsberry works flawlessy.
24p plays also OK if you set the OHC fixed to 60Hz like your suggestion, but than 50p have stuttering. Best solution there a working autoframerate and a stuttering free 24p Mode (or + 23,xxx Mode).
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05-22-2015, 02:51 PM
Post: #37
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Here is a good article on FPS/Hz http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379206,00.asp

Some focus on problems and faults others on solutions and success... no question who is the happy one.

Chameleon 16GB SD 32GB micro SD <-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to a A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.
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05-22-2015, 07:22 PM
Post: #38
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-22-2015 07:44 AM)Willem55 Wrote:  
(05-21-2015 08:55 PM)saarg Wrote:  @willem
Can you please stop ranting about how 23,976 is a useless frame rate?
Almost all blu-rays are 23,976 fps and should be played back at same frame rate. Most displays support 23,976 and no, it doesn't normally play it back at multiples of 50 fps.
Just because you do not see or want to know the difference doesn't mean its not an issue.

did you even try to watch 23,976 in 50p or 60p?

Check your TV screen refresh rate and know it's way higher than 24Hz more like 100Hz or even 200Hz so the screen is giving the same frame a few refresh cycles in a row.
now if the NMT outputs at 50p the math is simple but if it does 23,976 in 24p there are hic ups that I think you can avoid if you let the NMT translate 23,976 to 50p or 60p.

Check my post never said 23,976 is useless ... just a problem if you want to fit in 24p.

Now if you say your display supports 23,976 then why do you set the OHC to output at 24p?

The refresh rate of the display playing back 24 fps (Too make it easy) can be a multiple of 24. So it can be 48Hz, 72Hz or more. But this falls in the category of motion enhancer, and is not always a good thing for videophiles. It should be an option to turn off all this in ok quality displays. All my displays show 24Hz when playing a blu-ray movie or mkv ripped from a blu-ray. If you check the file with mediainfo you will also see that it's 24 fps (It will show 23,976 fps as that is the standard and the correct fps).
The reason we always speaks of 24 fps and not 23,976 is that some marketing guys thought it easier to say 24 instead of 23,976. In the same way 30 fps is actually 29,97 fps. Unfortunately it has now become a mix of everything.
A good display should display all of the fps correctly and a good player should play it with the correct fps also. The mede8er is a good example. It has perfect playback of all fps.

So 23,976 fps is not supposed to fit in 24 fps. It should be 23,976 fps.

If you choose auto frame rate or set the output to be 24 fps it should figure out if it's 24 fps or 23,976 fps.

The article you linked to is not very good. He doesn't understand it himself.
It states that the picture of a blu-ray is 1080p 60Hz. Period! It's 23,976 as I mentioned above for movies. Concerts and others like nature films is 50/60 fps though. He then starts saying that a progressive image is interlaced to 60Hz which is a wrong. Progressive means that it is one full image.

Does this make it clearer?

I will never set a media player to play my media at other refresh rates than the original. For me it doesn't matter if you want to do that, but please don't try to make it a sound like it's not an issue.
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05-22-2015, 07:56 PM
Post: #39
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
I don't think Willem is saying that it is not an issue, it's one of the major points that we all want fixing. I've even posted test files to test and repeat the problem in the 23.976 thread.

It doesn't stop use of the player and all he's saying is that whilst we await proper framerate detection and autoframerate try setting it to simply output at 60Hz and see if you prefer it to the current setup you have. The reason for 60Hz is that Google decided Android was to be setup on 60Hz so versions ago, with Lollipop this should help with this issue.

With regards the 23.976 vs 24fps Movie Bluray's they both exist and like TV Bluray's at 50Hz or 60Hz all should be able to be played at their native fps without any problems. The player should look for this and set accordingly no matter what container.

Has this got anything to do with this beta firmware thread?
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05-22-2015, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 05-22-2015 09:55 PM by Willem55.)
Post: #40
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Some 24p productions, especially those made only for NTSC TV and video distribution (e.g. in Canada or the USA), actually have a frame rate of 24 * 29.97 / 30 frame/s, or 23.976frame/s. Many use the term "24p" as a shorthand for this frame rate, since "23.976" does not roll off the tongue as easily. This is because the "30frame/s" framerate of NTSC is actually 30/100.1%, also referred to as 29.97frame/s – this framerate is matched when video at 23.976frame/s has a 3:2 pulldown applied. Similarly, 60i is shorthand for 60/100.1% fields per second. Some NLE programs may refer to 23.976 as 23.98, causing a small amount of confusion.
Note that with 23.976 fps time code, the 'second' counter is still increased after 24 frames, even though 24 frames add up to slightly more than a real second. When working with other time sources, confusion can arise since a 'second' in 23.976 fps time code notation is slightly longer than a real second, it is 1.001001001..etc (24 x 1/23.976) seconds long. In other words, when a time code was reached of 00:16:40:00, this does not mean the video has played for 16 real minutes and 40 real seconds (1000 seconds), but that it has actually played for exactly 16 minutes and 41 seconds (1001 seconds).
Nevertheless, even in NTSC regions, film productions are often shot at exactly 24 frame/s. This can be a source of confusion and technical difficulties.
Material is treated as normal video, since the slightly differing framerates can be problematic for video and audio sync. However, this is not a problem if the video material is merely treated as a carrier for material which is known by the editing system to be "true" 24frame/s, and audio is recorded separately from moving images, as is normal film practice.
An added technical problem is that the popular Matroska (.MKV) video container format allows novice users to declare that 23.976 video is 24.000, and this can result in codec conversion errors with concomitant video stuttering (due to frame "dropping" and "cloning") and loss of audio sync.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p

Some focus on problems and faults others on solutions and success... no question who is the happy one.

Chameleon 16GB SD 32GB micro SD <-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to a A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.
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05-29-2015, 07:23 AM
Post: #41
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Why does it work with other players, for example, with the Popcorn Hour C-300? No micro-stuttering during playback 1080p 24Hz. What's the problem with the OHC and SPMC?
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05-29-2015, 08:20 AM
Post: #42
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-29-2015 07:23 AM)jamaikajon Wrote:  Why does it work with other players, for example, with the Popcorn Hour C-300? No micro-stuttering during playback 1080p 24Hz. What's the problem with the OHC and SPMC?

Android!
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05-29-2015, 08:49 AM
Post: #43
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Bad! Why is this useless player even sold? The device can use but no one! That sucks :-(
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05-29-2015, 09:05 AM
Post: #44
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
(05-29-2015 08:49 AM)jamaikajon Wrote:  Bad! Why is this useless player even sold? The device can use but no one! That sucks :-(

Maybe Android Lollipop or Android TV fixes it if Rockcip will ever support it.
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05-29-2015, 09:08 AM
Post: #45
RE: 20150430 (1.0.25) - Beta Open Hour Chameleon Android Firmware
Let's hope it! Otherwise, you can throw away the OHC......
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