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Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
11-25-2015, 06:05 AM
Post: #16
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
(11-23-2015 08:24 PM)GFORCE100 Wrote:  Well Android Lolipop works on a Rockchip 3388 Octa Core SoC so perhaps the same is true for Android 6.0. Let's home OHC moves to at least 5.1.

You are missing the point. 5.1 'works' on the RK3288 already. However like all Rockchip chips works needs definition. To RK works means that they supply a half finished chip and move on to the next iteration or android version without fixing the issues with earlier ones.

No one wants to move to another android version simply for the sake of it.

OHC > HDMI > TV (Panasonic 42G20)
Downmix stereo using standard Kodi(MC) 15.2 no hware/acc OK
Downmix stereo 1.0.40/RK Kodi(RKlib) 15.2 infrequent audio gaps hware/acc OK

No DTS downmix available for inbuilt eMC player

Gecko> HDMI > TV (Panasonic 42G20)
Downmix stereo using Gecko Kodi 15.0 OK
Downmix using inbuilt MediaCentre OK

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12-01-2015, 09:22 PM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2015 09:44 PM by GFORCE100.)
Post: #17
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
(11-25-2015 06:05 AM)chris57 Wrote:  
(11-23-2015 08:24 PM)GFORCE100 Wrote:  Well Android Lolipop works on a Rockchip 3388 Octa Core SoC so perhaps the same is true for Android 6.0. Let's home OHC moves to at least 5.1.

You are missing the point. 5.1 'works' on the RK3288 already. However like all Rockchip chips works needs definition. To RK works means that they supply a half finished chip and move on to the next iteration or android version without fixing the issues with earlier ones.

No one wants to move to another android version simply for the sake of it.

@chris57 et al.

Right. In that case if this is how things go with Rockchip then isn't it ill conceived for Cloud Media to expect Rockchip to fix Android 4.4.2 related errata when they (Rockchip) have moved on to Android 5.1 or possibly even 6.0, and are focusing their efforts on this front instead of fixing "history"? ............or if what you're implying is that Rockchip is ill managed as a company (like you mention, they offer half-baked solutions and then skip ship to the next and so forth) then why not make this official public knowledge from (by) Cloud Media? A lot of people still believe in forthcoming fixes for various firmware issues. If this isn't possible due to a conflict of interest between Rockchip and among others Cloud Media then getting this out in the open might actually help Cloud Media. Keeping quiet about it in the long run will have the opposite effect. Yes, assuming the former route is chosen, sales of Open Hour Chameleon's would fall no doubt (news on the internet spreads like fire), but they'll fall even more if people get the feeling it (the non-handling of such matter) is being brushed under the carpet to not impact sales (the latter route).

I appreciate that fact you're not in a position to take such stance and make an official statement, though what you write seems to imply of "such heated issue" between the two entities, thus Cloud Media can either formally affirm this as true representation of how relations between them and Rockchip stand, and risk a drop in future sales (near-term future) with a possibly conceivable bounce back in the future sales (once Open Hour Chameleon II is released - on the condition it's an improvement on its predecessor), or risk considerably more (customer loyalty, company reputation) in the public eye by keeping tight lipped about it (this in turn being a subdued form of misleading its customer base in i.e. not choosing to take a position, especially one denoting the truth).

...or am I by chance perhaps observing the forest but not the trees (details that may sway such interpretation in either direction)?
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12-01-2015, 10:41 PM
Post: #18
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
What's the chris57 et al quip for?

Why are you flaming an already very over done subject? Read the myriad of times this has been discussed in this thread and others, the position has not changed. I am not a Company spokesperson and as the forum rules/policy states anything stated is done in the best interest and you should not infer anything from it. It's been a long day at work reading long transcrips so I'm just going to put my personal opinion on things. You will never get manufacturers making open statements as most are tied into NDA's besides the nature of the business is very much insular and centred in one area of the world.

We (the owners) got a Rockchip Android player first from OH. We then got a cheaper less powerful android player with a cheaper less powerful chip form another manufacturer (hisilicon) from OH. Read into that what you like but look at the NMT program from CM and how they have stayed with one chip manufacturer and gone thorugh their series rather than changing to other chips. The hisilicon chip performs video playback with no audio issues for me, the OHC still causes problems unless I run Kodi15 with mediacodec on rklib off. The later is very much turn key but is slower, cannot be rooted, etc. The Gecko gets around 18k in Antutu the OHC 38K last time i tested. Eventually given equal performance in Kodi the OHC is the better player, as the specs and price indicate. I and everyone else still wait for that firmware that has the very long awaited patches from Rockchip in it that fixes audio. That is far more important that what android version it runs as the new android os's themselves bring new issues as you can read on Freaktab where the likes of the development board users post. Do we want i yes, do we need it desperately like the audio fix no.

OHC > HDMI > TV (Panasonic 42G20)
Downmix stereo using standard Kodi(MC) 15.2 no hware/acc OK
Downmix stereo 1.0.40/RK Kodi(RKlib) 15.2 infrequent audio gaps hware/acc OK

No DTS downmix available for inbuilt eMC player

Gecko> HDMI > TV (Panasonic 42G20)
Downmix stereo using Gecko Kodi 15.0 OK
Downmix using inbuilt MediaCentre OK

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12-02-2015, 10:52 PM
Post: #19
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
(12-01-2015 10:41 PM)chris57 Wrote:  What's the chris57 et al quip for?

Why are you flaming an already very over done subject? Read the myriad of times this has been discussed in this thread and others, the position has not changed. I am not a Company spokesperson and as the forum rules/policy states anything stated is done in the best interest and you should not infer anything from it. It's been a long day at work reading long transcrips so I'm just going to put my personal opinion on things. You will never get manufacturers making open statements as most are tied into NDA's besides the nature of the business is very much insular and centred in one area of the world.

We (the owners) got a Rockchip Android player first from OH. We then got a cheaper less powerful android player with a cheaper less powerful chip form another manufacturer (hisilicon) from OH. Read into that what you like but look at the NMT program from CM and how they have stayed with one chip manufacturer and gone thorugh their series rather than changing to other chips. The hisilicon chip performs video playback with no audio issues for me, the OHC still causes problems unless I run Kodi15 with mediacodec on rklib off. The later is very much turn key but is slower, cannot be rooted, etc. The Gecko gets around 18k in Antutu the OHC 38K last time i tested. Eventually given equal performance in Kodi the OHC is the better player, as the specs and price indicate. I and everyone else still wait for that firmware that has the very long awaited patches from Rockchip in it that fixes audio. That is far more important that what android version it runs as the new android os's themselves bring new issues as you can read on Freaktab where the likes of the development board users post. Do we want i yes, do we need it desperately like the audio fix no.

@chris57

Thanks for finding the time and effort to respond despite a hectic day at your workplace, and putting the requests of this forum inline and along with your other commitments, most notably those concerning family life, or even just the desire to spend time and relax "away from it all".

I'm sorry that you feel what I wrote above classifies as flammable induced content. I was merely attempting to put logic to what is a foggy topic pertaining to Cloud Media's decision to hold off from after-sales communication (be this via its Marketing or Technical Support department thus staff). Not everything within a business is governed by a NDA, and even if the contract between Cloud Media and Rockchip is one containing confidential elements other than those traditionally depicting financial arrangements between the two, in my view words and phrases such as "sorry", "please be patient", "we are aware of X, Y, Z etc. and continue our efforts to seek remedy to these", "please stay tuned" are all examples of free speech, free from restrictions of any such contract(s). These and others alike from my observation are referred to in the business realm as components (outcomes) of "good practices". Some businesses even go and refer to a pro-active customer orientated approach to doing business as "standard procedure". I believe it all boils down to how a business perceives customers and to what degree, i.e. are they subjects, or are they "things".

I personally sympathize with you in that you've had to, at more than one occasion, take the liberty of answering various posts with a smiley face (to coin a phrase - a positive demeanor) in response to what have been and continue to be otherwise cases of gray reality, ones that are cumbersome to explain concerning various issues surrounding the Open Hour Chameleon as raised by individual forum members of this forum within various posts and threads throughout. If Cloud Media had until this point decided to practice a pro-active communication policy with its customers, I am 100% sure your role as Moderator would be a more pleasant one. We would also have had many new threads and posts of a completely different nature than those ranging from venting ones sheer emotions (sometimes ripe with foul language) to complaints, and then yet again more complaints. If to phrase this using business nomenclature, there would be less "churn".

I am perhaps one of the last people you will stumble across who have as their agenda the hidden desire of making your life as Moderator more taxing, and this naturally equally extends to Willem55. With that said, at this time of writing this post I consider my previous text to have been misinterpreted. I don't advocate anyone should be their own judge for obvious reasons, though what you seem to have contemplated as flaming I instead continue to be inclined to refer to as "fact finding" or "fact seeking".

Yes I do side with you, the Open Hour Chameleon's hardware is up their with the current best, which only emphasizes me in my puzzlement as to why Cloud Media hasn't decided to run for the finish line and win the trophy for 1st prize via exerting greater effort in the software scheme of things. As we seem to agree, there are bugs directly the result of Rockchip, and then there are generic (non SoC bound) bugs that Cloud Media could bury at any point in time, effort willing. I as each and everyone of us may showcase a bias of one form or another - this is only human nature. Perhaps I am too perplexed in how I see the joys and goals of doing business. Making millions of $$$ through any walk of legitimate business is a byproduct of delivering outcomes and delivering them at high quality (usually), and this is gratifying, though the true punch (thrill of it all) comes from the satisfaction (the feedback loop) of the chase of giving people what they desire. Such originating satisfaction cannot be bought, and earning it through talent, integrity, sweat and determination is what truly makes doing business a business worthwhile, at least IMHO.

Thanks again.
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12-03-2015, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2015 01:36 PM by Willem55.)
Post: #20
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
So... to make a long story short.
You question the logic of why no fixes are released on minor Firmware issues that are not due to Rockchip SDK driver inconsistencies, I've seen no evidence to support your assumption that the issues are SoC bound.
First you should consider the value of that action from the perspective of the user who want the major issues to be solved.. then there is the choice of allocating CM's development team recourses on this or on more potentially successful tasks.
In the end it is the company's call and we have to live with that as we are not on their board of directors.

Some focus on problems and faults others on solutions and success... no question who is the happy one.

Chameleon 16GB SD 32GB micro SD <-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to a A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.
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12-03-2015, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2015 01:38 PM by Willem55.)
Post: #21
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
@GFORCE100

I still wonder why you don't report your bug discovery list in the thread for bugfix request?

Please do an individual post for each bug and stay within the rules stated in post #1.

Concise would be niceWink, remember the majority of readers don't regard English as their native language.

Some focus on problems and faults others on solutions and success... no question who is the happy one.

Chameleon 16GB SD 32GB micro SD <-->HDMIv1.3<-->Onkyo TX-NR1010<-->HDMIv1.3<-->Panasonic TX-P46S10 + 6 Bowers & Wilkins speakers.
10 NTFS 2TB USB drives on 3 hubs attached to a A400, 2 Seagate blackarmour NAS 3TB, 2 Seagate Central NAS 4TB.
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12-03-2015, 05:30 PM
Post: #22
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
[Image: d4886374da80ef8ff48a96196fcbb3b15d8f10ee...9fd46a.jpg]

Y'know, I think, I think that a week from now, you'll be less in the mood for being amusing.
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12-05-2015, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2015 01:10 AM by GFORCE100.)
Post: #23
RE: Android 6.0 "Marshmallow" Announced - will it come to OHC?
(12-03-2015 09:37 AM)Willem55 Wrote:  So... to make a long story short.
You question the logic of why no fixes are released on minor Firmware issues that are not due to Rockchip SDK driver inconsistencies, I've seen no evidence to support your assumption that the issues are SoC bound.
First you should consider the value of that action from the perspective of the user who want the major issues to be solved.. then there is the choice of allocating CM's development team recourses on this or on more potentially successful tasks.
In the end it is the company's call and we have to live with that as we are not on their board of directors.

Exactly, without being on their BoD, an angel investor with whom they've signed a contract with, shareholders, bond holders (if applicable), or even their bank manager representing the bank from which they have a loan or a credit line, then unless Cloud Media's management wishes to reconsider their style of management for reasons X, Y, Z and so forth, we're basically at the long end of receiving anything. In other words, I concur with you tip to toe. This is life.

As for the other point you raised, I think either I'm not very adept at explaining this or that, or you seem to have taken my words from the wrong angle. In my view of where we stand, yes there are major firmware issues concerning the Rockchip SoC, for which Cloud Media has its hands tied behind their backs (fortunately they can still formally communicate should they choose to do so - other than posting Black Friday deals and little else of merit), but many (I'm still on the topic of bugs) are what you in turn nomenclature as minor issues. The latter in my mind are definitely belong to the most numerous group. Unless Cloud Media is hiring developers as freelances for exact jobs (i.e. they're not on the payroll month by month as a full-time employee(s)) due to the reasons that they either don't want to spend what it costs to fix firmware issues, or can't spend the true amounts necessary for a full blown support department as a result of poor financial standing (i.e. the Income Statement, Cash Flow Statement and Balance Sheet point to a financial constraints), then it would be efficient for the company to make use of their (the developers') time and talent during the absence of receiving good vibes from Rockchip (because let's face it, this may never happen - do not enter business with Chinese companies expecting the same courtesy as normally in the West (this being the result of years and years of the joys of developing capitalism first-hand since WW2, and a legal system in place as something to fall back on)). IMHO Rockchip may never send Cloud Media or their other business partners the exact low firmware updates their SoC firmware requires to overcome major issues such as DTS sound and stuttering etc.. If this turns out to be true then it's ultimately Rockchip who will in forthcoming years end up worse for wear when no reputable company will want to do further business with them. That's their issue. Whether this happens or not it seems pointless that Cloud Media sits idle (or mis-managed) while Rockchip learns the rules of capitalism at a walking pace. By not even choosing to take up fixing minor firmware issues, ones which can be rectified within hours or days, but not weeks or months, they (Cloud Media) risk engraving a sour opinion in the minds of its own customers, who in reality are individual partners themselves (Cloud Media provides the goods, we hand over the cash and so the merry go round turns the cogs from revenue through expenditure to profit).

Major issues should always come first, unless developers (generally company resources) are to be dislocated from maintaining an efficient operational realm within their respective roles. Rather than feel content that the Vten firmware is now top notch (as I understand, I don't have a Vten to test it, though I hear everyone should be happy now) it is my continued opinion (nothing more, nothing less) that company resources at Cloud Media should at least be set free to address lesser firmware problems. With that said I am just stating what in all respects I consider as facts. I am in no way annoyed at you, Chris57, or indeed anyone else on this forum. If anything I am being very frank about where I stand, why I stand the way I do, and what I think about what could be done to enhance the end user experience (and perhaps let Cloud Media score some reputation and financial bonuses down the line).

Bottom line. We have to live with the reality that is provided to us, despite however inappropriate or wise it would be for this reality to improve via whatever suggestions I or anyone else for that matter may wish to bring "to the table". While we stand displeased by how reality casts its shadows, this doesn't halt the thoughts that engage our minds. Others like me have chosen to express themselves much like I have done in my posts thus far. The only difference I have so far observed is that I am not as talented as many others to write concisely as you so propose Smile

(12-03-2015 09:46 AM)Willem55 Wrote:  @GFORCE100

I still wonder why you don't report your bug discovery list in the thread for bugfix request?

Please do an individual post for each bug and stay within the rules stated in post #1.

Concise would be niceWink, remember the majority of readers don't regard English as their native language.

In keeping in the spirit of the language used in the recent posts by equally you and I within this thread, let me first and forehand say that there is both a major and minor issue withholding me from doing so.

The major reason exists as follows. As you may remember from the other thread I started in which I articulated what in my view have been (thus far) the bugs and suggestions entailing firmware versions 1.0.27 and 1.0.33, then you will also recall their rather extensive nature. Without myself going to visit that thread at the time I write this, it is my recent memory that this thread (its first post) addresses in total circa 40 different bugs and/or suggestions. Perhaps upon further examination some could be converged into others. Either way let's assume there's 35 in total. As you recently suggest in as far as making a post in the thread for bugfix requests, this could result in my poor soul, and indeed the poor souls of anyone who choose to read through all the posts such decision would result in by setting about and breaking one post into many. Furthermore, you as I have equally noticed, have suggested every such element for a better term be exposed in one place. By doing so I would be taking what is currently one whole and segmenting it into 35+ posts, which in turn would make for hectic reading, and above all a longer thread (especially as I would not be the only one posting such "bug requests"). With all this said, would this not work against your notion of delivering the concerning content in one thread yet in many separate posts? By keeping it in one thread and post (I am now again referring to the specific thread I started concerning these bugs and suggestions), I am trying to deliver the lesser evil.

The minor issue of course surrounds my current timid optimism pertaining to Cloud Media taking these practices more seriously (or the general practice of gearing up the degree of technical support). One fuels the other, it's a two way street. If one side is all hyper and super involved while the other has its mindset far afield, then the super active side will lessen his or her involvement to a level deemed more suitable. It's not that I lack energy, will power, stamina or maybe even an IQ required of me in delivering such outcome, I am merely conserving my actions to those appropriate given what I observe coming out of Cloud Media. If the latter surprise me with the next firmware release, show a greater effort, then I too will most likely counter that with further positive (constructive) action. It's not so much about what's fair yet what's fitting.

As you and others have observed on more than one occasion, I have problems with the conciseness part you mention, but who knows, maybe even I can learn to hush up more and deliver bullseye more often given time Smile
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